The Background
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Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910), founder of the Christian Science Movement, published "Science and Health With a Key to the Scriptures" in 1875. She was greatly influenced by writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry D. Thoreau who made their Dharmic knowledge influence widely felt through books, magazines and newspaper articles. We find in as late as the 33rd edition of her book, excerpts from Sir Edwin Arnold’s translation of Bhagavad Gita.
The Presentation
----------------
Philip Goldberg, in one of the presentations of his book "American Veda", makes a reference to it and admits that these references were dropped in later versions. He just smiles uncomfortably as he says this and nothing more. (YouTube video: Hinduism's influence on the USA -part 2).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLQ2giC_Y4c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Digestion
--------
What happened? Going forward, in future versions of Mary Baker Eddy's book, ideas were implicitly presented as Christian Science. No more references to Bhagavad Gita.
This is what Rajiv Malhotra calls digestion - as in, you digest the content and wipeout the identity of the source. Goldberg implicitly acknowledges in the presentation with his uncomfortable smile that digestion has happened.
Do not expect sympathy or remorse from Goldberg - he goes far enough to call Emerson the American Shakaracharya, kind of implying the split from Dharmic roots began with Emerson.
Back to presentation on the Book
---------------------------------
By saying "American Veda", what Goldberg is saying is that the Vedas (and Yoga, meditation etc.,) are merely great secular methodologies or practices that can be taken from Dharmic systems and added into Christian Theology.
I applaud Goldberg for pointing out the Dharmic origins in his presentations. His comments on Dharmic systems are very respectful and complementary of their richness. Unfortunately, he does not make any direct references to Christian intentions of digesting Dharmic knowledge systems. Instead, he presents it as something that has become American while alluding to richness of Dharmic systems that can help everyone.
Perhaps, the book is to prep Hindus and Christians on what new things to expect in Christian theology?
Reconstruction of Hinduism
---------------------------
How does he justify this grand digestion? By labeling Hinduism a construction of the British Raj. Implication is that Hinduism is just a collection of goodies put together (courtesy, British Raj) as in a deli and you can pick and choose what you like and drop what you do not like.
The Grand Plan
--------------
Why jump through all these hoops?
Because, the goal is to preserve the core Christian history-centric concepts and layer in these secular American methodologies on top.
Are we treading too far with these inferences about Goldberg's intentions?
Let us take a look at his article in Huffington Post titled "Colbert: Try Hinduism for Lent".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-goldberg/colbert-try-hinduism-for-_b_838194.html
In that article, Goldberg writes:
(a) While researching my book, American Veda, I interviewed dozens of Christians and Jews -- among them ministers and rabbis -- who returned to their ancestral faith after a lengthy period of alienation or indifference, because the teachings that were birthed in India gave them a new perspective on what it means to be spiritual.
(b) You don't even have to call yourself a Hindu for that matter. I know it seems weird, but the tradition is so adaptable and welcoming that tens of millions of Americans orient their spiritual lives around meditation, yoga and other practices from India but don't think of themselves as Hindus.
I rest my case.
---------------
Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910), founder of the Christian Science Movement, published "Science and Health With a Key to the Scriptures" in 1875. She was greatly influenced by writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry D. Thoreau who made their Dharmic knowledge influence widely felt through books, magazines and newspaper articles. We find in as late as the 33rd edition of her book, excerpts from Sir Edwin Arnold’s translation of Bhagavad Gita.
The Presentation
----------------
Philip Goldberg, in one of the presentations of his book "American Veda", makes a reference to it and admits that these references were dropped in later versions. He just smiles uncomfortably as he says this and nothing more. (YouTube video: Hinduism's influence on the USA -part 2).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLQ2giC_Y4c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Digestion
--------
What happened? Going forward, in future versions of Mary Baker Eddy's book, ideas were implicitly presented as Christian Science. No more references to Bhagavad Gita.
This is what Rajiv Malhotra calls digestion - as in, you digest the content and wipeout the identity of the source. Goldberg implicitly acknowledges in the presentation with his uncomfortable smile that digestion has happened.
Do not expect sympathy or remorse from Goldberg - he goes far enough to call Emerson the American Shakaracharya, kind of implying the split from Dharmic roots began with Emerson.
Back to presentation on the Book
---------------------------------
By saying "American Veda", what Goldberg is saying is that the Vedas (and Yoga, meditation etc.,) are merely great secular methodologies or practices that can be taken from Dharmic systems and added into Christian Theology.
I applaud Goldberg for pointing out the Dharmic origins in his presentations. His comments on Dharmic systems are very respectful and complementary of their richness. Unfortunately, he does not make any direct references to Christian intentions of digesting Dharmic knowledge systems. Instead, he presents it as something that has become American while alluding to richness of Dharmic systems that can help everyone.
Perhaps, the book is to prep Hindus and Christians on what new things to expect in Christian theology?
Reconstruction of Hinduism
---------------------------
How does he justify this grand digestion? By labeling Hinduism a construction of the British Raj. Implication is that Hinduism is just a collection of goodies put together (courtesy, British Raj) as in a deli and you can pick and choose what you like and drop what you do not like.
The Grand Plan
--------------
Why jump through all these hoops?
Because, the goal is to preserve the core Christian history-centric concepts and layer in these secular American methodologies on top.
Are we treading too far with these inferences about Goldberg's intentions?
Let us take a look at his article in Huffington Post titled "Colbert: Try Hinduism for Lent".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-goldberg/colbert-try-hinduism-for-_b_838194.html
In that article, Goldberg writes:
(a) While researching my book, American Veda, I interviewed dozens of Christians and Jews -- among them ministers and rabbis -- who returned to their ancestral faith after a lengthy period of alienation or indifference, because the teachings that were birthed in India gave them a new perspective on what it means to be spiritual.
(b) You don't even have to call yourself a Hindu for that matter. I know it seems weird, but the tradition is so adaptable and welcoming that tens of millions of Americans orient their spiritual lives around meditation, yoga and other practices from India but don't think of themselves as Hindus.
I rest my case.
-SK
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Preface by Rajiv: Besides the issues raised by Surya below regarding Goldberg's book, I have expressed my displeasure to Goldberg. He interviewed me in depth in India and USA for material to write his book and received numerous leads from me. I was speaking at a Delhi conference on my UTurn Theory and there he was in the front row with his recorder. So many of the ideas and examples I gave then found there way in his book - including the one about Mary baker Eddy mentioned below - with only a marginal acknowledgment.
So here is another kind of digestion also going on here: Western authors who learn from Indian "native informants" (myself in this case) then go on to write in their own names what ought to be credited to the "native informants". I will address this issue in my uturn writings...
In Jim Burklo's critique of BD (to be published in a week) he relies upon Goldberg as his authority to claim that Hinduism is a bogus category invented by Indians under colonial influence! Talk about one westerner quoting another, who in turn merely cited yet another - in a circular chain of quotes - to then establish what becomes known as "fact", and this shows up in Wicki, media, textbooks, museum interpretations...
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The tragedy is that many Hindus actually think this digestion is something good for Hinduism. To use Rajiv'ji's deer-tiger example, they think the deer getting eaten by the tiger is good for the deer. Or perhaps, they don't even realize what is going on. Such is the imbecility.
There are prominent Hindu organizations in the USA who regularly parade Goldberg and give credence to the digestion of dharmic knowledge systems that he (directly or indirectly) expounds. One such organization even has Goldberg as an advisory member of sorts. Interestingly, a prominent member of this very same organization that supposedly works for Hindu interests, not too long ago publicly endorsed/gave-credence to a malicious report by the rabidly anti-dharma FOIL politburo (of Angana C.; who finds mention in BI; - Faigate notoriety).
I hope list members do not construe my comment as anti-Goldberg. Things aren't always black and white. His efforts as being respectful to the dharmic tradition are worthy of encouragement and appreciation. Specially when compared to the outright subversions propagated in the academy by the likes of Doniger and her (grand)children, with active support from native sepoys. However, there is a need to be very wary of (& eventually decimate) the very dangerous and insidious digestion paradigm which Goldberg either directly or indirectly, willingly or unwillingly, seeks to advance.
Rajiv comment: I agree 100% with the above. The problem with "appropriating" something like my uturn theory that has baked in my head for 20 years, is not simply an act of appropriation. Much more serious is that by wanting to separate these ideas from the deeper source, the person who borrows gives a partial picture and in fact a distorted one. I also agree that too many ignorant NRIs go ga-ga after any white person who seems to respect their heritage - a sort of inferiority complex that craves for the "Pizza Effect". Such folks tend to chase without doing a deeper study - that sometimes what appears to be a compliment from the tiger is in fact that his appreciation of the deer, praising him, licking him, finding his aroma nice...
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Goldberg knows his market well as he's catering on the nostalgia for the flower power hippies from the 60 and 70s and now for the new age movement with its chakra cleansing gurus and xitian yoga experts.The trouble with most Hindus is that they don't even know they are being digested so if a `white' western person does shows appreciation to India's heritage then all the red carpets are out..
That doesn't mean every `white' person is bad or even a U turner but the main problem lies with the India Hindus who cant tell the difference of who holds what agenda.
And then we have the useful Gunga dins who go gaga over people like the Wendy Donigers ect..Then we have the Hindutva movement parading itself around in oversized khaki shorts from the colonial era going nowhere.Then we have the Radha Rajans and Sandhya Jains suffering with an inferiority complex and extreme jealously while playing into the hands of the enemy..
But the biggest problem we do face is that even the Hindus who are aware of the problems end up in the same bad habit I see on most Hindu email threads and that's the habit of intellectual masturbation and I don't mean that crudely but that is a fact..
If most of Rajivs ideas don't go mainstream into the public then they will only stay in that small bubble of intellectualism while the masses get consumed and hypnotized by mass western consumerism ending up westernized and open to being digested..
We need to focus on solutions that are practical. For example I watch all of Rajivs Videos and they are very informative and he puts the facts across brilliantly but the overall production of the video lacks the creativity and professionalism it needs to get to attract the many hundreds of thousands of viewers.The videos can still re-edited and worked on to make them more appealing especially to younger generations of Hindus..
Its things like this we need to discuss and then help Rajiv's work to get to the masses.At least lets take the best from the West when it comes to marketing where they use creativity to sell their ideas to the masses like all these new age gurus and visionaries who steal hindu ideas then repackaged them as their own and make millions out of them. Rajivs research needs to get to millions and not a small lecture room of some students and professors which is good but its still limited..It can be done but then it needs practical solutions and action from everyone ..
That doesn't mean every `white' person is bad or even a U turner but the main problem lies with the India Hindus who cant tell the difference of who holds what agenda.
And then we have the useful Gunga dins who go gaga over people like the Wendy Donigers ect..Then we have the Hindutva movement parading itself around in oversized khaki shorts from the colonial era going nowhere.Then we have the Radha Rajans and Sandhya Jains suffering with an inferiority complex and extreme jealously while playing into the hands of the enemy..
But the biggest problem we do face is that even the Hindus who are aware of the problems end up in the same bad habit I see on most Hindu email threads and that's the habit of intellectual masturbation and I don't mean that crudely but that is a fact..
If most of Rajivs ideas don't go mainstream into the public then they will only stay in that small bubble of intellectualism while the masses get consumed and hypnotized by mass western consumerism ending up westernized and open to being digested..
We need to focus on solutions that are practical. For example I watch all of Rajivs Videos and they are very informative and he puts the facts across brilliantly but the overall production of the video lacks the creativity and professionalism it needs to get to attract the many hundreds of thousands of viewers.The videos can still re-edited and worked on to make them more appealing especially to younger generations of Hindus..
Its things like this we need to discuss and then help Rajiv's work to get to the masses.At least lets take the best from the West when it comes to marketing where they use creativity to sell their ideas to the masses like all these new age gurus and visionaries who steal hindu ideas then repackaged them as their own and make millions out of them. Rajivs research needs to get to millions and not a small lecture room of some students and professors which is good but its still limited..It can be done but then it needs practical solutions and action from everyone ..
-AS
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Philip Goldberg is an ordained interfaith minister. He had openly stated that he is not a Christian and that he does not believe that Jesus was physically resurrected. Nothing that has been said in this thread needs changes on knowing this.
Goldberg is definitely sympathetic (if not more) to Christianity. After all, there is lot more to Biblical beliefs besides resurrection of Jesus. If he really did not believe in Christianity, he should not try so hard to prop-up what he does not believe in. Why not just encourage people to follow the secular spiritual practices that he so wholeheartedly preaches and ask them to shun what he himself does not believe in? After all, he is so quick and frequent to suggest that these secular spiritual practices do not need religious beliefs.
Goldberg is also anti-Hindu. Every chance he gets, he is happy to write about taking spiritual aspects from Dharmic systems while suggesting that the Hindu religious beliefs can be dropped. He is also quick to disqualify Hinduism as a hodge-podge of regional sects that was congealed into an incoherent mass by the constructive power of the British Raj. But in the same breath, he is very happy to suggest layering these isolated spiritual practices with Abrahamic religions which he claims he does not believe in. He is writing frequently about disillusioned Christians and how spirituality via Dharmic systems helps them go back to their Christian or Jewish roots. Why is he interested in this if he did not really believe in these faiths? Why say this so frequently when he is not a believer in Christianity? As many times as he says this, not once will you see him suggest that for Hinduism or Buddhism.
Digestion is easy to do for interfaith ministers. It is cleaner for interfaith ministers to prop-up the edifice of Abrahamic religions by extracting aspects of Dharmic systems, call them secular, and add them to Abrahamic religions. Would undermine the faith if a self-proclaimed Christian preacher or religious scholar were to do this. There is the added benefit I suppose; Calling yourself interfaith and Universal lends you credibility that you need when you are busily searching for things to extract out of Dharmic systems. But actions and words cannot hide biases and true intentions.
Systematic theology is always on the prowl for uplifting secular add-ons for updating theology to fit the thinking of the times. Dharmic spiritual practices are fast penetrating American lives. Time is calling for their appropriate integration. Fits well when you think from the viewpoint of systematic theology: core scriptures and their integrity is central to theological developments; Since Christian core scriptures are incompatible with other religions, stripping out Dharmic religious aspects is essential to ensure scriptural integrity before absorbing secular aspects of Dharmic systems. Whether Dharmic religious aspects are superior or fit better (integral unity) with the Dharmic spiritual aspects is a non-sequitur when the goal is to develop better theological prop-ups for the Abrahamic scriptures. Even better if you can undermine and dismember the connections to the scripturally-incompatible Dharmic religious aspects before digesting the compatible spiritual aspects. Who better to deliver this than one who appears to love Dharmic spiritual practices but has nothing to do with Christianity?
-SK
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It's comforting to think that a large group of Indians in the West are resisting digestion, conversion to Christianity and asserting our Indian viewpoint and heritage. But it would not be true. Take the facts.
In Trinidad, my old country, Indians arrived in 1845 as over 85% Hindus, 10% Muslims, and few Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs etc. Over the last 160 years the Hindu share of the Indian population has dropped to just over 50%, while the Muslim population has remained roughly the same. There was very little resistance to digestion and conversion for a long time, and though there was something of an Indian/Hindu revival from the 1970's, the pattern continued of strong (voluntary) digestion and conversion among the middle and upper classes, and milder versions towards the lower class. Today western ideas and outlook are dominant in the Indian community of 500,000, Indian culture is giving way to the culture of the former African slaves and the culture of America/Europe.
In Guyana, the second largest Indian community in the Caribbean, the pattern is the same though the digestion/conversion is less intense. But Guyana is an anomaly because more than half the Indian population fled into exile some years ago after conflict/race war with the Africans, and a cold war conflict between the USSR and the USA/West.
I don't have accurate information about the third largest Indian community in the region, Suriname, because most of the Indians there fled into exile in Holland as a result of conflict largely with the Africans.
Indians in the other nations in the Caribbean are essentially gone, and exist as Indians only in physical appearance. Most have been completely digested, and know nothing about Hindu dharma, Indian food, clothing, culture, language, customs, philosophy. They are nearly all Christians and are intermarrying with the Africans at a rapid paste. Indians from Jamaica, Grenada, St Vincent, St Lucia, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Belize, all fit in this category.
In Canada we have 1.3 million "South Asians" with sub groups showing varying degrees of conversion and digestion. Our group the Indo-Caribbeans number just over 200,000 mostly from Trinidad and Guyana, and they continue as in their old countries with moderate resistance. People from India are the largest group, and regrettably the group with the fastest rate of digestion. We Caribbean Indians are astonished at how fast the India origin group are giving up their names, their culture, identity, language, clothes etc in order to get acceptance in the white western world. What we have battled to save for 160 plus years they are throwing away like confetti. At this rate 50% of the India origin immigrants will be digested in a single generation. I make an exception for the Muslims from India, who appear to resist more than the Hindus.
Other sections are the Pakistanis, mostly Muslims, who do seem to show some resistance- they have an Islamic perspective. The Sri Lankans are the next large group, most newly arrived, and from what I can see, the Tamils are generally stronger in the dharmic camp than the Indian Hindus. But they are so new it may be too early to judge, the same with the Fijian Indians who live mostly in British Columbia. We have a considerable group of East African Indians who came here from Uganda, Kenya, and Tanzania, whom I would judge to have moderate resistance to digestion.
And that is it for Canada, not bad in the resistance category, but not good either. The future prospects if this pattern continues are not encouraging.
As for the American Indians or Indo-Americans, they have big numbers of just over 3 million, excellent income levels, excellent acceptance in the American community, I would say very fine positive stereotypes. But the digestion/cultural conquest by the west is of a scary degree for a group that is mostly first generation immigrants and their children. As far as I can see, the Indian origin members are digesting and dumping their Indian cultural baggage at an alarming rate, faster than the Canadian counterparts. Among the middle and upper classes of professionals, business people, academics etc I would rate less than 25% as resistant to digestion, with the rest moving at light speed to Americanize themselves. Ask Rajiv about the kind of support he is getting from this group to see if I am right with this low ball estimate.
The Indo Caribbeans in the USA seem to me to be much like the Canadian counterparts, with medium resistance at best with the adults, and lowering resistance with the youth. I don't have information about the people from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Fiji, East Africa who are now resident in the United States. What we all know is that America as the strongest part of the West, is also the country with the strongest push towards digestion (they call it Americanization) of outside groups like ours, and the greatest pull factor for Indians and others to get ourselves digested in the search for acceptance.
If I would have to give high school grades for dharmic peoples of the American continent for digestion/conversion. and resistance to them:
Trinidad, Guyana, Suriname C
Canada, US D
Jamaica, Grenada, St Vincent, St Lucia F
Martinique, Guadeloupe, St Kitts, St Croix
Nevis, French Guiana
Belize, Cuba U
That's my picture of American digestion in the Americas, generally doing well, and dharmic resistance, NOT doing so well. Future projections: more of the same pattern.
You are of course free to dispute this picture, which comes from a subjective assessment, the only one possible because there are no facts/studies to draw on.
-RJ
In Trinidad, my old country, Indians arrived in 1845 as over 85% Hindus, 10% Muslims, and few Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs etc. Over the last 160 years the Hindu share of the Indian population has dropped to just over 50%, while the Muslim population has remained roughly the same. There was very little resistance to digestion and conversion for a long time, and though there was something of an Indian/Hindu revival from the 1970's, the pattern continued of strong (voluntary) digestion and conversion among the middle and upper classes, and milder versions towards the lower class. Today western ideas and outlook are dominant in the Indian community of 500,000, Indian culture is giving way to the culture of the former African slaves and the culture of America/Europe.
In Guyana, the second largest Indian community in the Caribbean, the pattern is the same though the digestion/conversion is less intense. But Guyana is an anomaly because more than half the Indian population fled into exile some years ago after conflict/race war with the Africans, and a cold war conflict between the USSR and the USA/West.
I don't have accurate information about the third largest Indian community in the region, Suriname, because most of the Indians there fled into exile in Holland as a result of conflict largely with the Africans.
Indians in the other nations in the Caribbean are essentially gone, and exist as Indians only in physical appearance. Most have been completely digested, and know nothing about Hindu dharma, Indian food, clothing, culture, language, customs, philosophy. They are nearly all Christians and are intermarrying with the Africans at a rapid paste. Indians from Jamaica, Grenada, St Vincent, St Lucia, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Belize, all fit in this category.
In Canada we have 1.3 million "South Asians" with sub groups showing varying degrees of conversion and digestion. Our group the Indo-Caribbeans number just over 200,000 mostly from Trinidad and Guyana, and they continue as in their old countries with moderate resistance. People from India are the largest group, and regrettably the group with the fastest rate of digestion. We Caribbean Indians are astonished at how fast the India origin group are giving up their names, their culture, identity, language, clothes etc in order to get acceptance in the white western world. What we have battled to save for 160 plus years they are throwing away like confetti. At this rate 50% of the India origin immigrants will be digested in a single generation. I make an exception for the Muslims from India, who appear to resist more than the Hindus.
Other sections are the Pakistanis, mostly Muslims, who do seem to show some resistance- they have an Islamic perspective. The Sri Lankans are the next large group, most newly arrived, and from what I can see, the Tamils are generally stronger in the dharmic camp than the Indian Hindus. But they are so new it may be too early to judge, the same with the Fijian Indians who live mostly in British Columbia. We have a considerable group of East African Indians who came here from Uganda, Kenya, and Tanzania, whom I would judge to have moderate resistance to digestion.
And that is it for Canada, not bad in the resistance category, but not good either. The future prospects if this pattern continues are not encouraging.
As for the American Indians or Indo-Americans, they have big numbers of just over 3 million, excellent income levels, excellent acceptance in the American community, I would say very fine positive stereotypes. But the digestion/cultural conquest by the west is of a scary degree for a group that is mostly first generation immigrants and their children. As far as I can see, the Indian origin members are digesting and dumping their Indian cultural baggage at an alarming rate, faster than the Canadian counterparts. Among the middle and upper classes of professionals, business people, academics etc I would rate less than 25% as resistant to digestion, with the rest moving at light speed to Americanize themselves. Ask Rajiv about the kind of support he is getting from this group to see if I am right with this low ball estimate.
The Indo Caribbeans in the USA seem to me to be much like the Canadian counterparts, with medium resistance at best with the adults, and lowering resistance with the youth. I don't have information about the people from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Fiji, East Africa who are now resident in the United States. What we all know is that America as the strongest part of the West, is also the country with the strongest push towards digestion (they call it Americanization) of outside groups like ours, and the greatest pull factor for Indians and others to get ourselves digested in the search for acceptance.
If I would have to give high school grades for dharmic peoples of the American continent for digestion/conversion. and resistance to them:
Trinidad, Guyana, Suriname C
Canada, US D
Jamaica, Grenada, St Vincent, St Lucia F
Martinique, Guadeloupe, St Kitts, St Croix
Nevis, French Guiana
Belize, Cuba U
That's my picture of American digestion in the Americas, generally doing well, and dharmic resistance, NOT doing so well. Future projections: more of the same pattern.
You are of course free to dispute this picture, which comes from a subjective assessment, the only one possible because there are no facts/studies to draw on.
-RJ
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